They [girls] just need to realize that guys will be looking at them. Old dudes.It was my favorite part of a conversation I recently had with a group of guys about modesty.
*Groans*
The age-old topic of modesty again...really?
It's a battle of the sexes: men wanting women to wear more clothes to help them in their sexual struggles and women wanting men to get over their sexual struggles so they can wear whatever they want.
So--we come to a screeching halt. Who must give in? Can there ever be a compromise?
We women find ourselves in a world where the fashion trends are currently quite revealing. Unfortunately, this same world seems to be penetrating the minds of men from the moment they hit puberty until the day they die, flooded with an array of bodies they've seen slewed across billboards, playboys, the local swimming pool, facebook... you name it.
I think the reason modesty is addressed so frequently is that, when it comes down to it, women either don't care that guys struggle so much sexually or else they really aren't aware of how much their clothes can affect men.
Sure, it's true that different guys will struggle with different things so when we're asking what the line is, we're inevitably going to come out with different answers. I think the bigger thing is realizing that they do struggle and that it does matter. Perhaps it's also important to realize how we dress and present ourselves will also determine the types of guys that will find us attractive.
In college I remember one of my non-Christian guy friends telling me how he was going to date the one girl in the swimming pool who was wearing a one-piece bathing suit. It caught me off-guard because I thought that surely the more revealing and skimpily dressed girls would be the ones to catch his eye...
I'm probably a bit disappointed in the way Christian girls dress. Disappointed because I want us to care more about how our bodies affect all men of all ages. Disappointed because I think we've become numb to the fact that our cleavage, our butts, our stomachs can rouse men...disappointed because I think we're sometimes glad when it does.
I think we put our desire to feel desired above men and their desire for holiness and purity... a battle that isn't easily won. We put our desire for sin above their desire for good.
Because, at the end of the day... what benefit does it really have? What benefit does dressing any way that you want to have? Who does it actually benefit?
BUT, if you being more wary of your clothing has a positive impact on the men around you, on their struggle with sexual sin... in even the smallest way... isn't it worth it?
I wish we'd think so.
I wish I'd always think so.
Women... I encourage you to put away your push-up bras, your low-cut v-necks, your sleeveless t-shirts that show your entire sides, your short shorts, your leggings, your bikinis. Ask a friend or a mentor what is too much. Delete your sports illustrated swimsuit edition pictures off your social networking sites that only encourage guys to drool over you for all the wrong reasons.
And guess what? Even if you don't have the perfect body, you can still cause men to struggle. Don't ever let yourself be fooled by the 'ol 'well, because I don't look like __________ I can get away with wearing this without affecting guys'. Pish posh. A boob is still a boob, a butt is still a butt.
This is a battle I'd like to raise my white flag to.
Men, you can have this one. I know how difficult it is for you even when girls do attempt to dress modestly. I'd prefer to not make it more challenging.
So- you keep working on your own stuff with this... and maybe a few girls and I will work on being a little more cautious with how we dress.
I think you're worth more than wanting to look stylish and sexy from time to time.
Hopefully a few others out there will agree with me.
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I'm really tired of my friends around the world being repeatedly raped and murdered and then it all being justified away by people who convince us that it could all just go away with the flick of a long skirt. I rarely comment on issues of politics anymore because I'm tired of the death threats from Christians, but felt compelled to in this case. My comments are for the lovely men of the Blue Chili, the girls and the customers between my old Street 19 and 172...
ReplyDeleteYou've touched on the biggest issue I've seen in 10 years of being a missionary/world traveler. Not poverty. Or domestic violence. Or drugs. But religions that monitor the dress codes, because if they can control the appearance, they can control just about anything.
As a Christ-lover and former fashion design major who's had a chance to meet and work with designers all over the world, I am loving the HUGE trend toward 1800's and 1950's fashions sweeping the globe, in large part thanks to TV programs like Downton Abbey and Mad Men. But even these 'modest' vintage fashions would have been banned in the US culture I grew up in. To tight. To revealing. To provocative.
Coming from a super conservative religious sub-culture in the States, then living in various religious cultures around the world--I can safely say that if a PERSON is going to be the scapegoat for any action against her by a person, male or female, it will happen, even if ankles or wrists are hidden. Encouraging a person to 'dress modestly' may quickly become another method of shaming what is created to be celebrated and putting unneeded guilt on a people group that has enough guilt and blame issues already. I won't even get started on how 'conservative' and 'modest' clothing ideas from others can get me killed.
Now living back in the States, there are co-workers on staff at the Christian organisation where I work whom I judge because I think their soccer shorts are to short and their shirts are to revealing. I look at them and cringe thinking, "Don't they feel any shame?!" But NOT healthy shame. Just shame, because I've been trained to believe that something in a knee must be shameful. Right?! I've lived with nuns, and dressed like them. And I've worn burkas. How I dress and present myself has not determined, "the types of guys that will find [me] attractive." My short shorts are your long shorts and I'm still happily unmarried.
Now I need to deeply challenge myself on how I look at a child of God when I am more focused on the length of their gym shorts then the depth of the heart. Should I hand him/her that burka? Will that stop the 'lustful' glances?
It's not about men. It's not about women. It's not even about lust or sex or showing to much. It's about a religious people group that's beginning to look and act an awful lot like many of the other religious groups in the world. And that's not how I want to love people...http://mysterymaid.blogspot.com/2012/03/are-you-supporting-murders-of-14-emo.html
P.S. I also tell my Christian gay guy friends to cut the crap when they say men should never take off their shirts because it causes them to 'stumble'.
I appreciate your passion on the subject... but, I'm struggling to see the reason behind your hostility toward modest dress. You obviously have some line in which you're unwilling to cross in regards to bearing your skin to the opposite gender. Is that only in place because of your upbringing?
DeleteI get the difference between the States and how things are around the world... and I would say my audience is strictly that of those in the States. Do you not think it's important for women to care about modesty in any capacity in the States?
If you can acknowledge that something you're doing/saying/wearing/being is affecting someone in a negative way.. if it's bringing them down... at what point do you try to change that something you are doing? Do you exist in a world where you do whatever you please no matter how it affects others?
Isn't part of loving others helping them walk through their weaknesses by not being a stumbling block?
And I guess my biggest question is... what's the harm in encouraging women in the U.S. to dress more modestly? Is it simply a fear that it becomes this unreasonable dress code that all must adhere to as you've experienced in other countries... that it becomes a legalistic law that we must abide by?
I don't think I'm creating a dress code through this post... I'm simply hoping that women in this country would consider what they wear, how it affects others, and the motive behind why they wear the things they do (not all of them are fashion designers...)
I appreciate this post and what you're advocating, Debbie. What an encouragement! Probably the most frustrating thing as a single guy who's truly sold out for Jesus and simultaneously working for a college ministry is seeing WAY too much skin on the Texas State campus.
DeleteFrom the world, I expect nothing less. 2 Timothy 3 -- in essence: the world is only gonna keep gettin' more crunk. They don't know Christ. Why would I expect those women to "guard my eyes/heart/[insert Biblically-referenced organ]"? This is rough, but it becomes my job/burden...
...but towards my sisters, the ones I'll be spending eternity in Heaven worshiping Jesus with, how can I approach any one of them and tell her what she's wearing is inappropriate? Instead, each woman who loves Jesus has the chance to make a stand on this issue. It's not my position to be the informant -- most of them, as you alluded to the fact, know what they're doing.
I think about a specific instance where a female friend of mine lovingly rebuked my ex-girlfriend for a revealing shirt she was wearing to a ministry meeting. My girlfriend at the time later told me how impressed she was at the honesty of this girl's candid response to her attire. I think we ended up burning that shirt. Awesome.
Personally, I find a girl SO much more attractive because of the character she demonstrates. Yes, physical beauty is important in my attraction to a girl. I don't hide, deny, or have any shame towards that fact. But a woman's inviting nature; her unique confidence in who she is, passion for loving Jesus, quirkiness, hobbies that set her apart, her heart for the down-cast and abused, and the compassion for the world around her...those things draw me in. A physically beautiful woman catches my eye. I'm a red-blooded guy. But while stylish garments are nice, styles come and go and "flaunting what you got" isn't a Biblical attitude to demonstrate as a woman following Jesus. I'm not gonna quote Song of Songs. But yea, that applies.
It's also a weird position we're placed in as guys. A lot of Christian bros talk about purity and wanting a girl who dresses modestly, but they fall for that girl who's fashionable and dresses "cute". I include myself in this list...not completely regrettably, but cautiously none-the-less. What about HER? Who IS she? Style and physical presentation can become WAY too much of a priority and cause us to overlook important character traits.
I think it's totally achievable to dress modestly in today's world and still catch the eye of a lot of Godly dudes, but it's a really sensitive balance. It's good to present yourself well, but as soon as your identity is wrapped up in your appearance or you notice some not-so-great attention as a bi-product of what you're wearing, it's probably time to hit up the thrift store.
In short: focus on what you are DOING (or not doing) to catch the attention of men who will lead you in a Godly way...not on what you WEAR. Be spunky. Be individual. Be Christ-focused. Be colorful. Be modest.
-Nate Rowell
Thanks for this, Nate. I appreciate this comment a lot and am thankful for your honesty. I think we could have many more interesting conversations to spur on more discussion!
DeleteThanks for the questions...
ReplyDeleteI would challenge that challenging others to 'dress modestly' might just be skewing God's love and be inflicting a great deal of confusion and pain as "something you're doing/saying/wearing/being is affecting someone in a negative way...if it's bringing them down... at what point do you try to change that something you are doing? Do you exist in a world where you do whatever you please no matter how it affects others?" I DO ask myself these very same questions all the time and try to make I talk or act however I please...And I DO believe that many Christians exist in their own world where they excuse what they do, say, wear, or be with various scriptures to support their own ideas until their world is so muddy they can't see forth to love gentiles.
You asked, "what's the harm in encouraging women in the U.S. to dress more modestly? Is it simply a fear that it becomes this unreasonable dress code that all must adhere to as you've experienced in other countries... that it becomes a legalistic law that we must abide by?" I first experienced this shaming and violence from Christians in America, and I continue to live through it wherever I am, regardless of religion. These ideas are enabling people in AMERICA--stemming from people who believe it's okay to 'challenge' others, that's it's their God-given mandate to do so.
I don't have a 'hostility toward modest dressing' at all--I DO have a great fear when I see people from a religion 'encouraging' others to uphold certain specified actions so as to not have others in the group 'stumble' and be led astray. That's a sign of a cult.
P.S. Your blogs are always timely and appreciated. Thanks so much for sharing!
We may have to agree to disagree on this one, my roommate (or we can just take it off the internet and talk to each other over our span of a few feet). I know our world views are completely different due to our life experiences. Perhaps I exist in a sheltered world of naivety, but I cannot, in any conscious, encourage girls to dress however they please when I'm asked my opinion on it. I cannot, when I know the affects it has.
DeleteNo part of my words have anything to do with earning salvation, but everything to do with considering others. No law has been placed, no law has even been suggested... but an encouraging of others to think beyond themselves. I don't think that's cultish...
I'll do the same thing with a thousand other issues than this (clearly)... and maybe it is our God-given mandate to do so... as much as it is yours to express the opposite opinion ('cause really what you're doing and I'm doing are not so very different). Perhaps your readers need to hear your side and mine need to hear mine. That's the beauty of the gray areas.
And then there's something to be said for being open-mindedness, too.
Let's chat about in real life soon.. for now, I have other things to write about :)